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PostPosted: October 20th, 2008, 12:14 pm
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
while that is pathetic & sad, what is worse to me is when someone takes something like that and tries to push it on the whole group...as if all republicans and/or conservatives are just like that...that we all think that way. completely false.

funny how you'll see people focusing on stories like this that really mean nothing because those ignorant people will never do anything...

but there is no focus or attention on a democratic controlled congress that oversaw all this banking/housing bullshit....you don't see/hear how they were out months before all this telling us that nothing bad would happen, that everything is fine...and these companies being bailed out are those that donate to or have an even more direct interest in those democrats in control currently.

weird how that has happened, completely flown over everyone's head, and no one wants to stop and take a look at who caused this....but oh well, what can ya do?


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PostPosted: October 20th, 2008, 11:28 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
While I cannot verify the exact statistics on how many republicans in the US are like the people seen in the video; from my own experience, I'd have to say the republicans I know or have met are either very similar, or the same.

And while we're on the topic, and you happen to be a republican, consider this:

Michigan Republicans for Obama


Republicans and military men on John McCain

I am by NO means an enthusiastic supporter of Obama or the Democratic party (believe me) -- but in my opinion, to put it mildly, a McCain/Palin win for the election is something that must be avoided.


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PostPosted: October 21st, 2008, 4:59 am
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
mmm, I am no longer a republican. Haven't been for awhile...probably since 2000/2001. The party overall has fallen short of true conservative values, and I just disagree with them a lot of the time. I am a conservative, who sadly is represented by a bunch of morons and corrupt aholes. I am sure just about every democrat can say the same. Politics are quite depressing when you honestly examine all those that are set up to represent us.

I don't know too many republicans any longer, most of my friends either don't care any longer or have somewhat slid away from the republican party in years gone by.

As for republicans that are voting for obama, i could never do that. i disagree with his ideas on/for our country so much so that i would rather vote against him than not vote at all. to me, i view him the same way that you view the mccain/palin ticket. avoid at all costs.

i don't like mccain, i can't really defend him. he is too liberal, and i believe half the conservative talk he throws out there will be long lost if he got into office; its simply to keep the republican base in his pocket for votes. he hasn't really ever voted very conservative, except on war & that i agree with. pre-emptive strikes have been long avoided and i don't see the reason why. it was done for cenutries before us, and will be done by others for years and decades and centuries to come, so i like that mccain recognizes that fact.

i'm not trying to convice you or anyone else to believe what i believe or vote for whoever, i don't assume like most of the modern media, that everyone is just so damn stupid that if you tell me who they should vote for that they will indeed simply vote for that person. i, however, could never have my vote swayed by liberal agenda-based youtube videos. in the end, all i am voting on initially is my agreeance with policy; if that isn't really avaliable, than i will vote against the lesser of two evils in my mind.


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PostPosted: October 21st, 2008, 10:21 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
Fair enough.

I am curious about your feelings on pre-emptive strikes in regard to war, could you elaborate? What do you think about the situation in Iraq? How about Iran?

I am also interested in what you consider to be the most important issues that a presidential candidate should focus on, and what their position on said issues should be -- care to divulge?


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2008, 3:01 pm
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
sure, no problem.

by pre-emptive i am meaning with cause...say someone, who is aligning themselves directly against us and means to potentially harm us, decides that they overnight want to arm themselves and aim missles and such at america...i think thats cause enough for pre-emptive behavior. now what happened with iraq - eh...it doesn't bother me so much because sadam needed to come out, he was a threat to us. was he tied to al qaida or the taliban? no, not directly at least but so what....just because the reasons were wrong doesn't mean the end result wasn't good. i disagree with the amount of time and money spent there, i don't believe they are worth it to send us further down the debt hole...and we should have been more strict when setting up their government that they do what they want, just take it over themselves (including paying for everything themselves within a much shorter period of time). if they sink, we tried. if they succeed - hey great!

with iran...i don't know what to make of it. the guy wants to kill us...i don't think thats really a question. should we run in bombing and shooting? of course not. we've done that enough in the eye of the general public anyways, so slacking off of that kind of behavior is a good thing. should we be extremely cautious and not deal with them? i think so. i don't see why we should reward someone that is secretly building weapons to possibly use on us. are there secret US government programs that fund this kind of trash, and sell them the parts they need? probably so, who the fuck knows...i don't trust our government for shit. i am not a conspiracy theorist...i think aliens are neat, but i don't think they run our government from underneath the pentagon. iran is a wait and see situation...just calmly speak with them, but definitely use survelence and if anything comes up that seriously threatens our country or our allies, then perhaps we move forward.

to me the most important issues for the presidential candidates to discuss would have to be our economy number one, america's security two and for me...this isn't a popular one right now, but downsizing government would be number 3. mccain and i won't agree on much of those - he'll go closer to the middle than i will, as i am a true conservative.

i don't want big government - i don't want the government to do jack shit for me except uphold our constitution (not change it!) and protect the country. i don't want rebate checks, i don't want partial tax-breaks, i don't want a redistribution of others' wealth. my wife and i would probably benefit from obama's 'spread the wealth' ideas - we don't make a lot of money at all, we barely make it between essential bills, food & travel....but i would never, and i mean NEVER, want to accept someone else's hard earned money. if exxon made a trillion dollars from selling a product, and did not cheat anyone in doing so, than that is the company's money to keep. i don't see how all of a sudden being too successful is a crime or something to be frowned on...when did that happen in this country? we were founded on principles that said go and do anything you want to be successful, and enjoy doing it. now how can you enjoy it if you're going to have more and more of that success taxed and penalized? that just makes absolutely no sense to me. if you aren't successful, and don't have any money - find ways to get it, legally of course. get two jobs...get three. i know people that have three and four jobs, and would never take extra money from the government to help them out. it just wouldn't feel right. i don't want tax cuts or breaks - just fucking stop taxing us period! go to a fair tax, or something just much smaller. our tax code is insane, and is a great way for the US government to cheat us yearly. if i had an ideal candidate running - they would be tearing down tax codes and portions of the government, liquidating assests to pay off national debts, and downsizing government interventions to allow capitalism to flourish again. that is the only way this country has ever truly been successful, and what we were founded upon - let the best man/woman/company win. if you cannot succeed at one thing, try another...its that easy.

as for protection of our country - i wish both candidates would say that they want to pull our military back home so they can number one rest...see family, relax, but also to save money. terrorism isn't really something we're ever going to win...doesn't mean we give up, but we should be looking into new forms of protection and new ways to combat something so different.

and in dealing with the economy - i would have never eeeeever wanted those fuckers to pay back the banks and other businesses that were failing so they could stay afloat to keep in business. fuck that. all that 700 plus billion that the government shelled out should have never ever touched their hands - that is OUR money, OUR tax dollars, and it was a huge waste. it should have come directly to us. what the fuck is a 600 dollare rebate check really going to do for us individually? i have electricity bills higher than that. that was a joke. they could have just as easily taken 700 billion - looked up all tax paying citizens, and sent them a check. we would have been given what, like 200/300 thousand?? we could purchase new cars, homes, luxury items, start new businesses and create new jobs. can you imagine all those people who always say "if i just had 100,000 i could open this company, or i could start this program...?" if the government gave US that money, we could do those things finally. our economy would flourish over night literally.

ok ok - thats probably way more than you wanted to know...i hope it answers your questions though...


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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2008, 10:47 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
Thanks for replying -- if you would like to know my opinion on any specific issues, feel free to ask.

Btw, here's an article I came across today regarding the dangers of mounting national "security": UK prosecutor warns of 'security state'


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2008, 5:34 am
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
i apologize for being rude - i did intend to hear your thoughts, and unfortunately assumed you would write them instead of asking...

but yes, please answer your own questions now.

thank you for that article...i was unaware of these different proposals until just now. that is extremely scary. my wife and i have discussed in length moving to scotland in future years. i certainly don't believe we would if something like that was to take place - although - if it does there, i am sure america would be next...so if i am going to be forever spyed upon/recorded, i might as well have it done in a place where the weather is always comfortable for me!


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PostPosted: October 25th, 2008, 6:38 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
I did not perceive any rudeness on your part -- I hope I did not come across as offended.

Before I respond, I'd like to dispel any notions that I'm some kind of "granola eating hippy"; I was raised on a marine corps airbase, and my father -- who is now retired after a 26 year enlistment -- was constantly overseas, and was in Iraq during both Bush presidencies. During the first gulf war, when I was 9 y/o, one could say I was actually somewhat traumatized in thinking he was going to die a bloody death. He had some close calls, but luckily he didn't get killed.

Anyways, in my opinion, anything war related -- such as a pre-emptive strike --should be an absolute last resort. It might also be a good idea to make sure such a decision is not based on shitty intelligence. One might consider applying this logic when dealing with the Iranian government.

I think some of the most important issues include the budget/economy, civil rights, energy/environment, education, etc. I don't know if I should be embarrassed to say this, but I agree with a lot in the Green party platform, and would like to have seen Ralph Nader debate and given an actual shot at becoming president.

Here's a videoshowing -- most significantly at 4:30 -- how the corporate media filters out all third party competition in the debates.

CNN: Ron Paul and Ralph Nader 9/10/08


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PostPosted: October 25th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
before i say anything else, i appreciate dearly your father's willingness to lend himself to the cause of protecting our country. thats amazing.

without even watching those videos yet - i can already tell you i'll agree that mainstream media is evil. i cannot stand tv these days, unless its something good like 'it's always sunny in philedelphia.' i do watch fox news typically if i watch the news, but really thats because cnn is so terribly old/boring, headline news is incredibly boring after ten minutes of seeing the same stories over and over, and msnbc is an absolute joke that should have been over with years ago. as far as tv goes, there just isn't anyone really on out there worth two shits.

i don't really care much for the green party - although i'll admit i've not read enough to act like i know what i'm talking about. i have a feeling i'd be a bit too conservative in my beliefs for them though...but never say never i suppose. if they were a real option, i would certainly read up more about it all. not to make them an invisible entity, but they aren't really in a true running...and nader has run his course. if the green party REALLY wanted to get elected and be noticed, get rid of that lazy-eyed fucker and put someone new/fresh in that could entice the youth of america to put their bongs down and turn off mtv long enough to vote. thats how the democrats are winning - they got rid of that business as usual type of character they always put up for election (god look at john kerry - what an f'ing moron he was!), and now they're about to probably win this election by putting up a fresh and new face.

sometimes thats all it takes. the break-through of a new generation, putting those old fucks in diapers that currently run our country in nursing homes and letting them die off.

anyways - just thought i'd throw that in there. i will watch those videos later (i currently have a sleeping baby in my lap, i doubt he'd enjoy me turning on youtube!)...


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2008, 10:43 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
poll: in your opinion, is obama just another lying, corporate owned, politician -- or does he really have the potential to "change" the political landscape and the direction of the US into a more rational future?

personally, on a scale from 1-10 (1 being a lying scumbag, 10 being an honest corruption fighting champion of the people), I give him between 5 and 6...

or a 3 if:
a) not taking into account my bias in wanting things to change
b) fully relying on what chomsky, zinn, and nader has said about him -- people who i consider mostly credible

I've heard so much positive and negative stuff i can't decide if i should really be inspired with hope, or just remain pessimistic, cynical, and depressed about this country and this planet...

i'd prefer the former, but i'm not going to delude myself into perceiving what is not so. perhaps only time will tell.


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PostPosted: November 13th, 2008, 6:51 am
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
I'd agree with a 3.

I don't hate him, just don't agree with him. I also would never in my life trust any politican, at all no matter what. He might have gone into politics with a good heart, but I promise you he won't stick with that when faced with everythng he's going to encounter. There is yet to be a story of a president that was TRULY honorable deep down during their presidency. I think members of the house & senate are even more untrustworthy though, and thats the one good thing about obama having no real experience in the senate - he didn't have enough time to be deluded by all the trash that works in there.

i don't want to keep focusing on 'hope' though - i think thats delusional. I HOPE i get a few million dollars this week...that shit doesn't work out...ever. Disney has fucked everyone on that by making people believe if you hope enough it'll come true. fuuuuuuuck that shit! reality is you gotta work your ass off to get those millions of dollars if thats what you want. we'll see if he works his ass off for us, since we hired him. if he does, it would definitely be more than what i could ever say for the house and senate members!


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2008, 9:25 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
How would you rate a McCain/Palin admin?

While I generally agree that no politician should be trusted, there are some current developments with the transition to the new president which I feel are grounds for a (somewhat?) positive future outlook. A few items on the agenda that lead me to this perspective include:

1)A support of Net Neutrality and a willing effort to carry out its legislation

2)Enforcement of "strict"rules against special interest lobbying

3)A proposal to "restore the basic principle that government decisions should be based on the best-available, scientifically-valid evidence and not on ideological predispositions."

In my opinion, hoping for a million dollars is delusional -- but, for those of us struggling to make ends meet on a daily basis, who work hard, and try to carry on throughout life with some integrity, and hope simply for the privilege to have food, clothing, shelter, and an opportunity to create a meaningful life in a society who's government strives for peace rather than war; I wouldn't consider that delusional at all.

But then again, having absolute faith in a benevolent government is certainly unwise -- especially, as you say, considering most members of the house and senate. When it comes down to it at the end, the fact is we only had two choices for president, and I feel McCain would have been a much worse selection, especially with Palin as his VP.

I'm keeping an eye on Obama. Let's see how he follows through with his tax-cut proposals for people making less than 250k. I'm not holding my breath, but like the man says, have some hope... or something. It will be sad if the lies start piling once he's in office, but until then, at least i'll have a break from my usual 100% conviction in a future dystopia; instead it'll be like 99.5% LOL! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: November 16th, 2008, 6:20 am
Posts: 219Location: TexasJoined: April 30th, 2006, 9:26 am
there are a few things that concern me, things like his healthcare ideas...close to being universal healthcare, which i think is wrong. and the fairness doctrine is unbelievable - and if i'm not mistaken obama supported it. i certainly hope that is unimportant enough that it sits on a back-burner till it can just fall away.

as for mccain/palin - i would have said a 6 BEFORE the election...now that i've seen how mccain reacted to losing and also how he never stepped out to say anything positive for palin after his team tried to rip her apart to save their own career - i would give it a 2. mccain obviously just is not cut-out for this kind of job, and i'm actually glad he lost. i voted for romney in the primary election though, soooo he was never my guy anyways.

as for waiting to see what obama does - thats true, thats all we can do and i'll support him up front because like everyone else is saying, he's my president now. and thats true at first - we must give him our respect and allow him the opprotunity to prove our theories right or wrong.

tax-cuts are fine, but taxing the more wealthy to try to give that money to government programs for those that didn't pay for them...i don't like that idea at all, and that seems to be a backbone in several of his previous proposals, and that scares me. we'll just see what happens. i would love it if he went in and tried to pull some of that money back from these recent bailouts that were a joke.

i'm gonna keep my skepticism at about 99.99% for now, heh...just to be safe!


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PostPosted: November 16th, 2008, 5:31 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
In my opinion, if the fairness doctrine makes it harder to broadcast lies and deception, and forced a more unbiased presentation of information, then I'm not sure it's such a bad idea. Allowing media -- like most "news" networks -- free-reign over "the selection of topics, distribution of concerns, emphasis, framing of issues, filtering of information, and bounding of debate" might in fact be very much against the public interest.

Back in the late 70's when they first began repealing this policy under the Regan administration -- which as I'm sure you know was first established way back in the 50's -- they claimed it "hurt the public interest and violated free speech." But I think it is possible that the public and free speech had very little to do with their actual reason for repeal. One might say it was carried out simply to enable private interests to act irresponsibly with the dissemination of information, and to let them "determine, shape, control, and restrict the public’s world view – and ultimately to serve the interests of certain dominant and powerful elements."

When it comes to universal healthcare, I like the idea, but I think it is wrong to spend money on the wellbeing of someone who has an unhealthy life-style, i.e., eats unwisely and/or too much, sedentary, abuses drugs (like alcohol and tobacco), regularly engages in high-risk activity (like unprotected sex). In my opinion, the best way to implement such a policy, would be to include qualifiers and different levels of provided health coverage according to the above factors.

Now, how to monitor a patient's lifestyle and health habits for an ongoing determination of health coverage, I have no idea. It might be somewhat invasive, infringing on one's privacy. Perhaps some kind of computer strapped to the body at all times that perpetually keeps track of vitals, such as blood content and brain wave activity. What better way is there to care for someone's health, than to keep them from getting sick in the first place? As such, there would certainly have to be a major reform in the food industry; everything from food processing and coloring, to preservatives, to pesticides and herbicides, would have to be revised and/or eliminated -- not to mention a crack down on fast-food quality.

What is it you liked about Romney?

While spending money on things for people that didn't pay for them may sound bad, I imagine the struggling, hard working families all over this country who really can't afford being taxed, getting help from money taken from the most wealthy individuals -- whose lavish-lifestyle wouldn't be affected much, if at all (even if they're paying a million dollars more a year on taxes) -- then it does not seem so irrational. In fact, it might even make sense.

BTW, this has been an enjoyable exchange. I have a few ongoing discussions in other forums, both on and off the internet -- but it's particularly interesting to have one in a medium of common interest.


Last edited by walking barcode on November 17th, 2008, 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2008, 10:03 am
Posts: 5Location: austinJoined: June 21st, 2007, 1:49 pm
Basiclly we can't all just get along and governments are a neccessary evil. What really chaps my ass is that we only get two candidates and they are polar opposites. Whatever happened to the middle man? I think Republicans at least scare the rest of the world enough to maintain sovereignty. That doesn't mean we have to rule the world ;but we don't have to save it either.


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