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<  Deep Prime  ~  The Magic of Lustmord

PostPosted: December 2nd, 2005, 11:07 am
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
Dear Mr. Williams (or may I call you B.?),

I haven't heard your entire discography, but from what I understand, your works are at least partly influenced by things "occult." Specifically, I can recall (in the now-deceased wormwood of the older forums) references to Kenneth Grant ("protoplasmic reversion" and whatnot), along with the entire lovecraftian ambiance which is said to exude from that cd (which I haven't yet listened to), and, which I found quite intriguing, the exhortation of sorts which can be found in the booklet along with "The Place Where the Black Stars Hang." Memory fails me as to what it read verbatim, but I distinctly remember the "very real need" to uncover the "ciphers" which would allow the opening up of the "eldritch dimensions." Then there are of course your connections with Tool/Adam Jones, whose arcane interests are too well-known to go into any detail here.

Now, both through your art and your persona, you reveal yourself to be a "deep" individual (and this is, after all, the "deepnet"). What I'm wondering, if you haven't been asked of this a thousand times before, is, to what extent do the various tenets of occult thinkers influence your own thoughts and philosophies? Those of Eliphas Levi? John Dee? Crowley? Austin Spare? Kenneth Grant (and, as he would have it, H.P. Lovecraft?)? Others?

You denied in no vague terms to being a "practitioner" of these things, but even still, this is a topic of topics which is very much of interest to me, and is, apparently, to you as well. Plus, you seem to be less reticent to conversation than the folks at Tool!

James


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PostPosted: December 2nd, 2005, 1:10 pm
User avatarAdminPosts: 612Location: Los AngelesJoined: November 19th, 2005, 10:22 am
somulo wrote:
Dear Mr. Williams (or may I call you B.?)


You can call me whatever you want.
-though I won't necessarily respond ;)

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from what I understand, your works are at least partly influenced by things "occult."


I'm not influenced by things occult, but there are elements from that area that interest me and that have ingrained themselves into my work.

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I found quite intriguing, the exhortation of sorts which can be found in the booklet along with "The Place Where the Black Stars Hang." Memory fails me as to what it read verbatim, but I distinctly remember the "very real need" to uncover the "ciphers" which would allow the opening up of the "eldritch dimensions."


True, but note that that is much as a clue to some of the elements within that album (and some of the others) as anything. Things tend to be multi-layered around here and much of what I do in my music is under the surface. There are many elements that I put into my work that I deliberately don't divulge for various reasons, one being that it's important that they are textures and ciphers rather than over statements.
It's very important that they're there, but it's also important if people aren't immediately (if ever) aware of them.

Quote:
Now, both through your art and your persona, you reveal yourself to be a "deep" individual (and this is, after all, the "deepnet").


Thanks, but it's probably best you don't say such things as it will only go to my head. But rest assured that I'm actually quite grounded.
I'm sure I've been called worse though.

Quote:
What I'm wondering, if you haven't been asked of this a thousand times before, is, to what extent do the various tenets of occult thinkers influence your own thoughts and philosophies? Those of Eliphas Levi? John Dee? Crowley? Austin Spare? Kenneth Grant (and, as he would have it, H.P. Lovecraft?)?


See above. I don't actually have a philosophy, and much of the world/universe/whichever term you prefer, is a matter of perspective (in my opinion). I've read much of the authors you name (though not much Spare) and have a comprehensive collection of works by some, and I find their perspective to be amongst the more interesting. That in itself would be influential on a unconscious level I'm sure.

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Plus, you seem to be less reticent to conversation than the folks at Tool!


Ha ! They're actually a very talkative (and stimulating) group of people, you jut need to ask the right questions ;)[/quote]


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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2005, 12:00 am
User avatarPosts: 4Location: Sweet Sunny San DiegoJoined: December 1st, 2005, 3:09 pm
Quote:
Ha ! They're actually a very talkative (and stimulating) group of people, you jut need to ask the right questions


LOL...yes, thats always been a challenge, asking the right questions...which in my case usually begins and ends with silence...ahhahahah...but you can learn a lot when you just shut up and listen, you know? Well sometimes anyway. Yea...anyways welcome back DeepNet...woot woot...so where's the pary :D?

Its Festivus for the rest of us!!!! (I may or may not be slightly intoxicated...but that doesn't change the fact that I love Seinfield!!!)


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PostPosted: December 6th, 2005, 2:08 pm
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
B,

The promptness of your reply only further confirms the parting remark in my last post. They don't even have a forum on toolband.com!

Well, I suppose when/if you become "mainstream" (increasingly likely as people become aware of your affiliation with that band) you too will grow weary of replying to long-winded (and, which I hope will not be perceived in this case) sycophantic inquiries from the sweaty legions of fans.

Then again, for better or worse, I can't really imagine your music being played on "Zpop fm" or anything like that.

Quote:
True, but note that that is much as a clue to some of the elements within that album (and some of the others) as anything. Things tend to be multi-layered around here and much of what I do in my music is under the surface. There are many elements that I put into my work that I deliberately don't divulge for various reasons, one being that it's important that they are textures and ciphers rather than over statements.
It's very important that they're there, but it's also important if people aren't immediately (if ever) aware of them.


It has occurred to me that the passage under question is paraphrased from "The Magical Revival." Specifically, from the essay "Austin Osman Spare and the Zos Kia Cultus." The sentence read thus; "Spare would not reveal the magical graphs that unsealed the cells of these eldritch dimensions." Oh, well, I suppose the artist's intent takes precedence over a mere speculator. And it is the artist/magician/manipulator-of-all himself who, as said Spare, actually creates then wields these sigils/ciphers. Might it have been, in this case, one of those unconcious impressions?

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I don't actually have a philosophy, and much of the world/universe/whichever term you prefer, is a matter of perspective (in my opinion).


Ah, well, relativism is a philosophy, isn't it? Perpectives within perspectives? Ad infinitum? But of course you know that old game...

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I've read much of the authors you name (though not much Spare)


You really must, I repeat, must read Spare. Especially with your interest in K Grant. I know, I know, his credibility as a writer might be put into question due to his shining (and tragically, unrecognized, in all but the fewest circles) abilities as a graphic artist (it was Gertrude Stein who said, in brief, that such artists mostly reproduce and reflect the thoughts that writers feed to them). And while I must admit his prose can often be dense (think; a more blatantly mystical, and English, Nietzsche), I myself have always preferred to dig a bit in the rough to procure my diamonds. More exciting than a stroll through Kriegel's, right?

Plus, I dunno, Spare has always seemed more authentic to me than Crowley. At the very least, he never trumpeted around as an "Ipsissimus" within his own self-devised system. Curiously, he had an intense loathing for Crowley, some interesting/possibly amusing details of which can be found on the Fulgur website, in the article "Discord in the Garden of Janus." http://www.fulgur.org/articles/richmond.html

Most of his written works can be found online (though are, for the most part, divorced from the artwork which joined them). A simple google of "Austin Osman Spare" is utterly recommended.

James


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PostPosted: December 7th, 2005, 3:35 pm
User avatarAdminPosts: 612Location: Los AngelesJoined: November 19th, 2005, 10:22 am
somulo wrote:
They don't even have a forum on toolband.com!


I believe it's in the Toolarmy section.

Quote:
you too will grow weary of replying to long-winded (and, which I hope will not be perceived in this case) sycophantic inquiries from the sweaty legions of fans.


(Legions ?)
I don't mind replying up too a to a point (though time is often an issue), it's flattering that someone is remotely interested , and it is one reason these forums were set up for. It's the same old questions that I get weary of. Shame all those old forum posts were lost, now I'll have to answer many of them again...

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It has occurred to me that the passage under question is paraphrased from "The Magical Revival."


Incorrect. Somehow I manage to come up with these things all by myself :)

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Specifically, from the essay "Austin Osman Spare and the Zos Kia Cultus." The sentence read thus; "Spare would not reveal the magical graphs that unsealed the cells of these eldritch dimensions."


That's very interesting.. as ever, none of us have a monopoly on originality. But then, it's just a matter of choosing suitable word for what you're trying to say (or trying to conceal).

Quote:
Ah, well, relativism is a philosophy, isn't it?


By one definition I suppose it is, but you're assuming that I subscribe to relativism, which isn't the case.
[/i]


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PostPosted: December 8th, 2005, 3:26 pm
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
I myself have come to feel that any expressible philosophy (in word-form) is quite inadequate when meaning to adumbrate, much less fully articulate, the utterly belittling spectrum of a cosmic existence.

Yet another insignificant strand thrown into the pot.

The interesting thing (for myself at least) about the many branches of occultism is that they actually prescribe "methods" which attempt to rend these word-nets. Quite unlike, for instance, the webs of religion, or at least the ones I have known.

Hope I haven't been a bore to you, btw.


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PostPosted: December 8th, 2005, 3:55 pm
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
Forgot something. I was never willing to fork over the (considerable) dough for toolarmy. Do they actually participate in the forums? I do think I sent an email off to Danny Carey... about two years ago... no reply yet (still holding out).


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PostPosted: December 8th, 2005, 4:04 pm
User avatarAdminPosts: 612Location: Los AngelesJoined: November 19th, 2005, 10:22 am
somulo wrote:
Forgot something. I was never willing to fork over the (considerable) dough for toolarmy. Do they actually participate in the forums?


Not on a regular basis as far as I'm aware (tough I could be wrong) but I know that they do make an appearance from time to time.
They do have a presence elsewhere online as individuals though.


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PostPosted: December 8th, 2005, 6:09 pm
User avatarPosts: 4Location: Sweet Sunny San DiegoJoined: December 1st, 2005, 3:09 pm
Quote:
They do have a presence elsewhere online as individuals though.


I don't suppose you could leak anything out??? hehe, and don't be a smartass about it :x (i.e. Adam Jones' Myspace account...that doesn't count...lol) Nah, I'm just kidding :P...Lord knows they can use all of the privacy they can get these days.

Quote:
Forgot something. I was never willing to fork over the (considerable) dough for toolarmy. Do they actually participate in the forums?


yea they don't EVER come on TA...except the occasional scheduled webchat from time to time...which is just absolute chaos...since there is like several hundred TA members all trying to get a question in at once...madness!!! But since I paid I havent had to renew at all, 3 years I think its been now, met a lot of great people, and even more stupid people, lol, but what are you gonna do eh? Ultimately the best thing and the main reason I signed up was for the PRESALE tickets to their tour, as they usually sold out in minutes...hah, so I had guarenteed good seats without having to spend the night in front of the ticket window (as I saw them many times these last tours :p)...anywho I think its worth it...but they arent touring right now soo, heh, doesn't really matter at the moment...but ANYWAYS!!! Yea...good posts by the way somulo, even though I'm a little lost, bleh, wish I knew more about the subjects, I do find them intriguing...ok...I'm outta here...take care all as always.


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PostPosted: December 9th, 2005, 10:32 am
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
Quote:
Yea...good posts by the way somulo, even though I'm a little lost, bleh, wish I knew more about the subjects, I do find them intriguing...ok...I'm outta here...take care all as always.


Well, now that Tool has let their interests be known, it's become almost faddish to be perceived as a "Thelemite." I mean, pentagrams and what-have-you have always been goth "staples," but nowadays, it's always 93 this, "do what thou wilt" that. It really isn't esoteric anymore (you can find almost all of Crowley online too). Why, just a week ago I saw a copy of "Liber Oz" stapled up on one of my university's bulletin boards (granted, it's a rather liberal campus)! I would like to think that it all represents a ripening into the New Aeon, but my intuition tells me otherwise, that it's more likely fulsome posturing. Sigh...

The whole Austin Spare/ Crowley rivalry seems like the stuff of legends, and I still would heartily suggest anyone remotely interested to read the article I posted above. It really is a pity, though, the negligence of Spare in relation to Crowley. IMHO, he was at least as brilliant. Certainly a much better (graphic) artist; the fact that he also devised his own unique magical "system" (he wrote several grimoires on the topic) is even more oft overlooked. My first thought on exposure to Spare was, "How is it that Picasso has overshadowed this man?" They were contemporaries, you see. Of course, I suspect the world of "pop-art" is run much the same as any other "post-modern" enterprise; with the sole ambition of profit in "mind," if you'll excuse the ill-use of that term. Should I quote "good ol" Andy Warhol? Naw...

All the more unfortunate, I think, is the fact that his (AOS's) only champion thus far has been Kenneth Grant, who's almost ubiquitously perceived (when perceived at all) as being totally unhinged. The general mentality associates like with like so... it's unlikely Spare will ever be honored his dues. Though, I'm aware that a rather well-known "experimental" music group, which would certainly be well-known in the likes of deepnet, have adopted Spare's cultus at various points in their career...

Brass ring goes to the man with the answer! (not really, but I'll give my regards) :wink:


Last edited by somulo on December 9th, 2005, 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: December 9th, 2005, 10:41 am
User avatarAdminPosts: 612Location: Los AngelesJoined: November 19th, 2005, 10:22 am
somulo wrote:
Quote:
I'm aware that a rather well-known "experimental" music group, which would certainly be well-known in the likes of deepnet, have adopted Spare's cultus at various points in their career...


I presume you mean Coil, who were always very open about it. Geoff (aka John) had a very impressive collection of Spare originals.


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PostPosted: December 9th, 2005, 10:51 am
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
Yeah, come to think of it, it is rather too well-known. Oh, well, brass ring to you anyway (congrats, in other words). I believe they had auctioned off a large sampling of their original Spare artwork in the past.

There's also some heavy-metal outfit with an album called "Zos Kia Cultus," who goes by the name "Behemoth" I believe. I've never been up to listening to the album, though, due in part to the rather embarrassingly overdone "Baphomet" coverart, which to my knowledge has nothing at all to do with Spare... besides being vaguely tied-in by way of being "occult."


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PostPosted: December 13th, 2005, 11:19 am
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
Well, since I have little else meaningful to say, I suppose I ought to advertise the fact that I am listing one of K. Grant's rarest titles, "Beyond the Mauve Zone," via ebay, which may be seen by clicking the link below...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenneth-Grant-BEYON ... dZViewItem

I would suggest reading the auction description with a tongue-in-cheek attitude, which is precisely that in which it was written. Except the bit about the book's condition, which is indeed near-mint.


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PostPosted: December 13th, 2005, 11:23 am
Posts: 8Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 10:12 am
On second thought, I had another snippet from the "Black Stars" booklet pop up during an early-morning reverie today. Why has DNA been cast the role of the "ultimate parasite?" I've been reading some Richard Dawkins lately... so... I wonder?


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