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<  DeepCore  ~  Illegal downloading

PostPosted: November 18th, 2008, 4:32 am
User avatarPosts: 76Location: SwedenJoined: October 31st, 2008, 10:57 am
I mentioned something about this in another thread on the board, to which Brian reacted very strongly. Thus, I thought it appropriate to start a discussion, in which I ask all of you: what are your views on illegal downloading?

Personally, I have always, and always will buy the CD's that I like. I don't think anyone out there misses the fact that the artists make money from people buying their CD's, and that they need money in order to make a living. However, the main thing is, I find it very hard to come up with a better method for discovering music than downloading. I consider the option of going into CD stores and listening pretty much eliminated, since it's very time-consuming and, most importantly, CD stores have a severly limited range as opposed to the internet. That is also the case with iTunes Store and similar, legal online stores, and besides that, how can you tell if a CD's interesting if all you get is 30-second excerpts?

I think the vast majority of people in here listen to quite a lot of obscure or relatively obscure bands, and what better way to discover new albums/bands could there be than to download the material and listen, then discard the bad ones and buy the good ones in physical shape? I don't think anyone likes the idea of ordering a batch of CD's from a small, independent label in another part of the world, pay for overseas shipping costs, only to find out that they're all lame once they arrive. Everybody wants to know what they're buying, and when it comes to lesser known bands, I don't see any other way than to download the material before buying. I can't possibly see what could be wrong about that.

Of course, there will always be egocentric idiots who download ridiculous amounts of music without ever buying a single CD. But no-one will ever be able to do anything about it in an age like this(if the governments try to impose new regulations, they always cause an uproar with pissed-off people shouting about a Big Brother-society until the governments back off), plus, I think it's hard to get to individual downloaders without violating their integrity. Illegal downloading is so big and widespread that it's become impossible to stop. All that the individual can do is to go by his/her moral standards, and support the music industry if they consider it right to do so. As I said, I buy CD's, I own hundreds of them, including Lustmord, whose music I would never have discovered to begin with if it wasn't for downloading. I support the industry in the ways that I can, although I believe that artists have to start finding new ways, which for instance Brian has done(by making film scores etc). The music industry cannot survive on CD sales any longer, and the world needs to adapt even better instead of trying to impose futile rules on the population. However, I belong to the people who still try to support the business by buying CD's, and I encourage everyone to do so. I strongly dislike people who only download, but I'm not trying to tell them what to do. They have their ethics and I have mine. The governments and the artists should restrict themselves to condemning these people and saluting the people who do support the industry, but in trying to get to the downloaders by means of laws and rules, they're only wasting time, effort and money.

Any opinions?


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 11:06 am
User avatarPosts: 76Location: SwedenJoined: October 31st, 2008, 10:57 am
Seriously, am I contaminated or something?

And, Brian, isn't an apology sufficent? I'm afraid I can't offer much more.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 2:10 pm
Posts: 167Location: EnglandJoined: December 30th, 2006, 11:44 am
I'll be honest here and make no apologies; I download before I buy, BUT I always buy the 'proper' album if I enjoy it. The mp3 means nothing to me.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 3:08 pm
Posts: 12Location: InnsmouthJoined: November 19th, 2008, 4:21 am
Same here. You can waste money on ten albums, and only one of them turns out to be good, or you can download them, and then buy the ones you like.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Posts: 167Location: EnglandJoined: December 30th, 2006, 11:44 am
Coming at it from a different angle: I actually don't think bands are losing 'real' record sales; they are losing the former curious listener who would buy on a whim and not necessarily like it (and those people are now sampling it prior to parting with their cash). Nobody I know just downloads an album if they enjoy it; they also buy the real thing.

In other words, make sure your shit is good!!


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 4:32 pm
Posts: 12Location: InnsmouthJoined: November 19th, 2008, 4:21 am
As I understand it, recording artists usually don't make money on record sales anyway, unless their album hits heavy on the billboards. Your best bet to support artists is to go to their concerts.

File sharing is also an excellent way of discovering new bands. Most of the bands I listen to now, I wouldn't have ever heard of if it weren't for p2p.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2008, 5:46 pm
User avatarAdminPosts: 612Location: Los AngelesJoined: November 19th, 2005, 10:22 am
Oceanic wrote:
I actually don't think bands are losing 'real' record sales; they are


Speaking personally, I know the opposite to be true.

Sales are considerably less than they used to be while the amount of people listening is substantially higher.
This is also reflected in the sales of catalog titles, so it's not simply a matter of new releases being less popular.

Most of my friends make their living with music and they all report the same.
Private conversations with established labels with a following reveal the same: the music is more popular than ever but that's not translating into income.

Obviously, people enjoying one's work is a good thing and always appreciated. But the fact that many, if not most, aren't paying to do so is making it increasingly difficult to continue.

There are those of you that do support the artists and it does make a difference, but most don't .
I've yet to meet anyone who can suggest a solution, and artists I know are worried about the long term.


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PostPosted: November 20th, 2008, 4:57 am
User avatarPosts: 76Location: SwedenJoined: October 31st, 2008, 10:57 am
B wrote:
There are those of you that do support the artists and it does make a difference, but most don't .
I've yet to meet anyone who can suggest a solution, and artists I know are worried about the long term.

Well, you've come up with one. To make money in a way that doesn't rely on record sales, I mean. But given the nature of your music and areas of interest and skill, it's probably a lot more easier for you to make film scores etc. I think it's quite individual, what methods different bands and artists have to come up with to make money when record sales are sinking. Granted, mainstream and popular bands can make money from merchandise and touring. The main problem, I think, concerns bands that are not extremely well-known, and whose fanbase still doesn't consist of die-hard, special edition-vinyl collectors who live in decorated caves.

Of course, artists have to start to work more outside of music. But I mean, there's a lot that doesn't have a fancy enough education to get a really well-paid job, and so many might have to live with very low material standards. I know that this board has a share of republican Americans, but seeing as I come from Sweden which has formed one of the world's greatest welfare states with a perfect balance between capitalism and socialism, I'm gonna go ahead and say this anyway. Maybe the cultural branch of the state could form some kind of fund for artists and musicians with low-income jobs. I assume that there is already something like that in the States(there is here), but perhaps it needs to be made stronger, seeing as the problem we're discussing is rapidly growing. Of course, the only way to reach that is by tax increases(*COUGH*or stopping the warfare*COUGH*), and as I percieve it, Americans never look to lightly on that. Also, in poorer countries, they probably need the state money for more important things. But let's not go further on that subject, there is already a thread about politics.

I'm not very educated in this matter, but could it help?


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PostPosted: November 20th, 2008, 6:03 am
Posts: 167Location: EnglandJoined: December 30th, 2006, 11:44 am
B wrote:
Sales are considerably less than they used to be while the amount of people listening is substantially higher.


I'd attribute that to how easy it is to obtain music, though. There is definitely a culture of downloading anything that leaks, even if you aren't a fan, just to satisfy curiosity. For that reason, I'm sure some people have also become fans who wouldn't necessarily have bothered with a band pre downloading.

It's catch 22, because although I do download albums to see if I like them, I also really hate it when people don't buy the finished product once they've decided it's worthy. I've seen people's computers...there's literally 100s of downloaded albums which have never been listened to. Everything is too easy now, which takes alot of the mystique away from putting a record on for the first time and immersing yourself in it.


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PostPosted: November 20th, 2008, 6:06 am
User avatarPosts: 76Location: SwedenJoined: October 31st, 2008, 10:57 am
Oceanic wrote:
Everything is too easy now, which takes alot of the mystique away from putting a record on for the first time and immersing yourself in it.

True words.


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PostPosted: December 7th, 2008, 2:18 am
User avatarPosts: 14Location: CanadaJoined: November 12th, 2006, 12:27 am
I just turned 40 last week and I'm just shocked and dismayed at how much things have changed.

I'm one of those guys who used to go to his local specialty record stores and sought out the new releases with the incredible covers (4AD, Mute Records). Many of these releases I would buy blind, not knowing what the record was going to sound like and because of that my musical pallet grew extensively.

When I came across an interesting looking cover or curiously named group I would then give them a preview before decidig to buy it. I learned that one should be able to determine if the record was going to do it for me or not pretty quickly buy sampling them in various places. No one needs more than a minute sampling to determine whether or not they like a song.

When CDs overtook LPs in sales I slowly changed formats, keeping some of my favorite LPS/12 singles. But I always bought my music. Nowadays it's completely devastating. I find myself with co-workers that own less than 50 CDs yet have gigabites worth of music, with no intention of buying the music they "borrowed" from someone or somewhere else.

I've watched three of the larger record store chains in my country go belly up in the last 3 years and I'm worried what is going to happen in the coming years. Allot of the music I listen to are from independant artists and they are the ones feeling the full force of the declining sales. So the next time you go get an album off of some blog or something, think about what would happen to the artist if you never decide to buy it but keep it anyway.


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PostPosted: December 9th, 2008, 11:43 am
Posts: 167Location: EnglandJoined: December 30th, 2006, 11:44 am
Dave (aka: Mizu) wrote:
No one needs more than a minute sampling to determine whether or not they like a song.


Err, no.


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PostPosted: December 9th, 2008, 7:07 pm
Posts: 12Location: InnsmouthJoined: November 19th, 2008, 4:21 am
Oceanic wrote:
Dave (aka: Mizu) wrote:
No one needs more than a minute sampling to determine whether or not they like a song.


Err, no.


Some songs take time to grow on you. I didn't like Dream Theater at first, but once I started to understand what they were doing with their music, I appreciated them more. The same goes for a lot of bands I listen to. Music doesn't have to be your favorite thing from the beginning, it can be an acquired taste as well.


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PostPosted: December 9th, 2008, 8:29 pm
User avatarPosts: 170Location: GAJoined: December 21st, 2006, 11:04 pm
I buy my music for selfish reasons, such as preferring original CD audio tracks and the included album art. I don't have a lot of money to spend on music, so this means unfortunately, my collection is VERY small. I find that listening to the local college radio stations, as well as internet based radio like Last.fm is a great place to discover music and be sure of my purchases. My collection will hopefully grow a tiny bit this Christmas.

I guess an added benefit to this is that the artist is somewhat compensated for their work, and as result, is able to pay for food, clothes, and shelter. Although, if it were up to me, I'd force the artist to live on the streets starving so they can come up with some really good material inspired by needless pain and suffering.


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PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 10:51 pm
User avatarAdminPosts: 27Location: MichiganJoined: September 6th, 2006, 1:20 pm
I buy and listen to a lot of vinyl, and you can't steal that from the internet :)

I buy everything else digitally from iTunes. I discover a lot of new stuff on myspace and will buy their music by listening to the tracks in their myspace profile.

Sometimes I'll buy actual CD's of bands I am a fan of just because I like having it.

I support my bands therefore I buy their music.


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